Type R Bites It

"RacinBob" (racinbob) 05/18/2019 at 20:08 • Filed to: None

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If you watch the video, he just loses it on a medium speed turn with the back end giving up. It seemed unnecessary. A couple of questions come to mind.

1. I wonder if his rear tire pressures were too high?
2. What role if any did stability control play in his lack of ability to recover?

H aving raced FWD, my experience is that a stab at the throttle in a half spin can help to recapture the rear end. I don’t know if that could of worked for him though with the turbo lag and stability/traction control at play.

Well I guess you can say though that the Type R is set up to rotate at corner entry. It certainly isn’t a plow box b ut beware what you wish for...... .

Not a Sunburst Miata > RacinBob 05/18/2019 at 20:27

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I drove a type R at MSR Cresson and the back of the car never truly felt planted, it was the most twitchy through the back complex which is a series of medium speed left handers. I’ve felt way more comfortable going through those corners in my Miata or BRZ

LongbowMkII > RacinBob 05/18/2019 at 20:28

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Never lift?

Also improved the looks

RacinBob > Not a Sunburst Miata 05/18/2019 at 20:44

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Based on the video, I gotta agree. The back end shouldn’t give up that easily. Maybe tire pressure, maybe too hard tires, but probably come to think of it   cold tires .

nermal > RacinBob 05/18/2019 at 20:55

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Hit a bump in the middle of a high speed turn while accelerating, and the back gets out of shape a smidgen , then lift off the throttle abruptly, and this is what happens.

Nothing wrong with the car, or the track, just driver error. That particular track is a very bad one to push your limits on - there are walls all over the goddam place, extremely close to the track surface, with generally poor runoff . He’s actually lucky that he went to the inside instead of to the outside . To the outside of that turn is a sharp drop-off before a wall, which more than likely would have caused the car to flip.

XJDano > RacinBob 05/18/2019 at 21:03

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I’m still not going to subscribe. 

RacinBob > nermal 05/18/2019 at 21:26

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I think he shifted mid turn too. That might be a big part of the problem.....

jspencer89 > RacinBob 05/19/2019 at 04:20

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Not sure why these don’t have a manual e- brake. I feel like there needs to be a kit to put one in. Maybe it would have straightend the car.

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > RacinBob 05/19/2019 at 06:43

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what happened to the red one that impressively over corrected a drift tho?

PardonMyFlemish16 > RacinBob 05/19/2019 at 07:16

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I crashed my G37  at a local NASCAR track nearly the same exact way. I hope he had track day insurance

Taiso0019R > Not a Sunburst Miata 05/19/2019 at 07:35

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Hard to say.. . I’ve done the Roval here in Charlotte and most of the good mountain roads in the area . Never felt the back end was twitchy to the point I needed to work too hard, as opposed to the last time I drove a 4C at over 7/10ths. Trick is not to trail brake with this platform, slow in fast out. Also not to kick a man while he's down but I think over confidence seems to be a theme for him sometimes. Applying a bit of throttle while correcting never hurts either. 

Hondaham > RacinBob 05/19/2019 at 09:16

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Another side to look at it, Type R doesnt have active rev match. Electric steering when he hit that bump, his hand moved the wheel. So you see the minimum amount of movement on electric steering will respond more than a pinion steering. He should of held the line higher, we would or been good, since Civic Type Rs don't have much understeer or over steer

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > RacinBob 05/19/2019 at 09:54

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If I ever went to the effort to try and race something as a hobby, the car would be RWD.

RacinBob > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 05/19/2019 at 12:05

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A Miata is the droid for you. Though, a well set up FWD car is a lot of fun too. By the way, I think what caught both the type R and the red Civic was cold tires.....

The back end can give up, but it shouldn’t result in a spin like both of those cars did.

RacinBob > Hondaham 05/19/2019 at 12:18

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I don’t know how much actual track driving the owner has done. There is a method of taking turns so you do not set yourself up for a spin. Not sure if he’s doing it or not. I have ridden with a student who didn’t know how to approach a turn that scared the crap out of me.

What I am sure of is that the back end does not just give up for no reason , Here’s some of the possibilities

- over do your turn in
- lift or get out of power (like shift out of power band)
- bottom out the rear suspension (non-stock sway bar bind)
- hit fluids,
- have a flat rear or over inflated rear
- fronts warm up but the rear tires are cold.

ghetto1980 > RacinBob 05/19/2019 at 13:54

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he shouldnof never posted this video he could of just got it towed home and said he he tried to avoid a car and hit a wall then the insurance company would pay for it now i don't think they will 

Jayvincent > RacinBob 05/19/2019 at 14:32

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IMHO, some gas and oppo would have saved it just before he hit the grass, not sure anything would have saved it once he’s on the grass except a whole lot of braking run-off which wasn’t there . There’s almost no tire squeal as it comes around, which says to me either over- inflated rear tires or cold rear tires.

MonkeePuzzle > RacinBob 05/19/2019 at 15:03

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Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > RacinBob 05/19/2019 at 16:55

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With a handle like RacinBob , I’m going to go way out on a limb and guess that you know a lot more about this sort of thing than I do. But I think these kind of hi jinks seem, well, unnatural in a FWD car. Still, the little Honda that spins out early on, seems to me, he should have applied some throttle to pull the car back into compliance. Seems to me like people are trying to punch above their weight and it got expensive.

canyoncarver > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 05/20/2019 at 13:15

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It’s seems like your punching above your weight regarding racing cars as a hobby or competitively.

As mentioned, a properly setup FWD car is killer on track or autocross.

The Civic Type R beat a lot of RWD and AWD cars around Nurburgring. The BMW M2 for example.

If you decided to take up racing as a hobby, I actually recommend a FWD car at first, then move onto RWD.

It’s very easy to drive a RWD car if you can hussle a FWD car properly. It doesn’t necessarily go the other way.

canyoncarver > PardonMyFlemish16 05/20/2019 at 13:16

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this!

canyoncarver > Jayvincent 05/20/2019 at 13:23

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this...

I’m going to assume he’s more skilled in video footage and editing than driving experience.

We all have to start somewhere. It is what it is.

His video signifies minimal driving instruction.

Driving constantly his thumbs hooked in the steering wheel.

I hope he took his hands off the wheel before the impact...

That’s just an expensive lesson. Financially and emotionally.

Those 2 little tracks at Summit Point suck. Little to zero run off room.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > canyoncarver 05/20/2019 at 13:23

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I’ve tried to be clear about using words like “if.”

I’d be afraid to take it up because I’d be afraid of destroying my car, as these guys do.

The fastest car I’ve ever owned, believe it or not, was a late-model Impala, which made about 300 horsepower, they claimed. I paddle-shifted it through a spirited drive on a winding road one time and it was fine.

Personally? I’d rather be able to smoke some rubber and drift a little bit than risk destroying my car on a track.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > RacinBob 05/20/2019 at 14:03

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The speed shown may very well be GPS speed, not wheel speed from the ECU. The boost gauge being oddly cropped out and the fact that the audio is “missing” tells me that he panicked and froze up when the car got sideways and doesn’t want to admit that he did the wrong things to try and save it.

EDIT: watching it again and monitoring the AFR he was off throttle all the way to the wall. 

UserNotFound > RacinBob 05/20/2019 at 20:18

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On the bright side, it looks much better now.

RacinBob > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 05/27/2019 at 13:48

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Lets just say I have been racing since the Reagan Administration. 95% in FWD cars. I think he got caught out by cold tires. The best indicator being the r ed Civic the spun a couple of turns before. For me in a race, it takes about 3 laps in a race before I trust them. Before then, I am very gentle with loading the back end.

FWD cars are fun, but you have to get the mindset of setting and sliding the back end. It’s kind of like carving turns on skis. Once you get the feeling and know what you can trust in the back end and learn to figure out what you can get away with , the cars become easy and predictable to drive.

My sense is that the new R has excellent control and traction of the rear tires. My guess is he had always had the back end stick, and got caught out when it didn’t with cold tires . He was still learning but t hat’s a mighty expensive way to learn about car control.

The tough thing is for a fraction the money he could have bought this K24 Honda Challenge carfor $11k . It should have been quicker with the bonus of no wreck costing more tha n the $5k cost of a new tub.   https://www.racingjunk.com/NASA-Honda-Challenge/183193277/FS-1994-Acura-Integra-HC-candidate.html?category_id=1078&np_offset=2

RacinBob > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 05/27/2019 at 14:06

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If you can swing the storage, a dedicated track car is the way to go. They handle better, break less, and cost a fraction of what a new car would cost. I have towed my cars with everything from a Omni GLH to a Chevy Uplander. Assuming you are not climbing mountains, almost anything will work with some planning.

BTW, the cheapest track time now is probably 24 Lemons. Do a couple of races and you will figure it out. Also, underpowered and underweight is better. It’s a lot better to be learning in a 2000 pound Miata or 125 HP Civic than in a 300o pound, 300 hp Type R. You can’t learn much if you are scaring yourself to death. Check out racingjunk.

This would be a lot of fun, and very reliable. https://www.racingjunk.com/Road-Club-Racing/183201082/Honda-CRX-Racecar.html?category_id=5672&np_offset=54

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > RacinBob 05/27/2019 at 19:32

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Thanks. If I ever take up any sort of motor sport, it’ll be hooning.